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Gay Rights

MARRIAGE VOWS: Gay Marriage Ban Ruled Unconstitutional

Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker ruled Wednesday that California’s Proposition 8 ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional.  This is a major victory for gay-rights advocates, following a 5-month wait for Justice Walker to release his 136-page detailed rejection of Prop 8.  Walker argued, ““Banning gay marriage is fundamentally unconstitutional, and violates America’s commitment to end discrimination.”  The decision is expected to be appealed in the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, and most likely land itself in front of the Supreme Court.  

MOMism: “Nobody is getting special treatment.”  O-MAMAs try their best not to play favorites with our KID-Os. And, needless to say, they are the first ones to call us out on perceived injustice. We know we need to keep the rules consistent, consistent, consistent.  The truth is our kids just want our unconditional love and support…and when they act out, it is to get our attention.

Judge Walker used much of this reasoning for his decision to overturn the ban on gay-marriage in California that required amending the state constitution to deny same-sex marriage.  He cited that gay couples could not be treated differently than straight couples as partners, parents and citizens, and that they did not ask for anything more than what straight couples were guaranteed under the U.S. Constitution. Not more – just equal.  

In his decision, Walker argued that “Although Proposition 8 fails to possess even a rational basis, the evidence presented at trial shows that gays and lesbians are the type of minority strict scrutiny was designed to protect.” Over 7 million Californians who voted for Prop 8 were reminded that, in fact, the Constitution vows to protect the rights of everyone…unconditionally.  And, when there is a perceived injustice, citizens are granted the right to get the court’s attention to ensure “freedom and justice for all.”  Consistent, consistent, consistent.  Please read our opinion, We love you all, equally.”

59 Responses to MARRIAGE VOWS: Gay Marriage Ban Ruled Unconstitutional

  1. Anonymous August 5, 2010 at 2:07 pm #
    Opinionated MAMA

    The day ONE judge over rules WE THE PEOPLE, is the day WE THE PEOPLE need to take notice. The PEOPLE of California voted, there answer was NO gay marriage. THE END. This judge needs to not only be over ruled, but disbarred!

    • Anonymous August 5, 2010 at 2:23 pm #
      Opinionated MAMA

      That's not what our country is about…the rights of a group of individuals is never supposed to be voted on by THE PEOPLE, because American citizens are given inalienable rights granted by the Constitution. Ballot initiatives cannot deny the rights of citizens. Prop 8 did. The CA State Constitution had to be amended to take away the rights of same-sex couples. You may not agree, but I don't agree with hate speech either, but I understand the right to free speech…I don't agree with a lot of things for moral reasons (i.e., guns), but that's what happens in a free society. We live and let live!

    • snflwrshell August 6, 2010 at 10:49 am #
      Opinionated MAMA
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      A majority wanted slavery to continue in the South (and even in other areas of the country). A majority wanted Jim Crow laws to remain. A majority felt the same way as this about interracial marriage! The constitution protects individual rights IN SPITE OF the discriminatory thoughts of the majority!!! By the way, what is SO wrong with same-sex marriage?? They do not harm YOU, they do not harm MARRIAGE (people harm marriage by their own actions, as evidenced by the high rates of divorce), marriage is NOT a religious institution – if it were, only Christians could marry!! I am Buddhist and my husband is athiest – and we are LEGALLY married!! SO, they do NO harm to you, to marriage, and religion really shouldnt be a factor at all in the LAW of the US (separation of church and state – another pesky constitutional right!). Therefore, once this goes before SCOTUS, they will have no other option but to allow same-sex marriage across the US!! Our constitution ensures it!!

    • Anonymous August 6, 2010 at 12:42 pm #
      Opinionated MAMA

      Well, that about says it all! Except you forgot women's rights. (-: A majority didn't want women to have a voice either (see this month's opinion…so good!). I am a happily married hetero woman and mother…I don't really have any gay friends…but, it is none of my business what gay couples do or don't do. Just like it is none of my business what Mormons do, or gun owners do, etc….as long as they don't break any laws or hurt anybody, I may not agree with their views, but I will fiercely defend their rights to their freedoms. And, I feel the same way about gay rights. Freedom and justice for ALL. Period. We might not be there yet, but we'll get there eventually!

  2. Anonymous August 7, 2010 at 11:02 am #
    Opinionated MAMA

    I'm a 59 year old heterosexual happily married for 33 years woman. It warms my heart that soon (prayerfully) all people will have the right to marry their loves…and enjoy the same happiness I've been "entitled" to.

  3. Anonymous August 7, 2010 at 11:03 am #
    Opinionated MAMA

    Hello everyone!!! My name is Jackie. I was married to my Partner June 17th, 2008, after gay marriage was overturned again. So far I have been married a little over 2 years, and as far as I can see it has not hurt the other marriages (Man & Woman). I am proud to call "Ness" my wife when I introduce her to other people. Those opposed to gay marriage, take some time and talk to a few of those "gay couples", and I "GUARANTEE" you will have a change of heart. We (gay people)are smart, sensitive, trustworthy, loving, caring, funny, very hard working, reliable, just like almost anyone else.

    • Anonymous August 7, 2010 at 11:41 am #
      Opinionated MAMA

      Congratulations Jackie! I don't really have any gay friends, so this is a great place for me to "chat" and make some new ones. (-: I think there are so many people in this country who believe in equal rights for ALL, regardless of our own personal experience. The more we talk about this important issue…and teach our kids respect for others…we will continue to make progress.

    • Anonymous August 7, 2010 at 4:33 pm #
      Opinionated MAMA

      Hi tiredmama!!! Thank you for your reply. I see that you don't have any gay friends, now you do.:) What people don't understand is that I knew I was attracted to women as a small girl, (5 years old). I did not understand it, I was just too young. As I got older, I finally understood was what happening. The thing that people say, "That being gay is a choice", not true. Why would anyone in their right mind choose such a difficult life of hiding what you feel. Feeling that "God"-yes "God", would not accept me into his kindom. We have to lie at our jobs that we have a "BOYFRIEND" at home, or that we are engaged to be married, or I just broke up with my boyfriend, and not looking for a relationship. I could go on forever.

    • michelleo-mama August 8, 2010 at 12:55 am #
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      Nice to meet you WOWFACTOR! I have always believed that being gay was genetic…not a choice. As a child, everyone wants to blend in…no distractions, nothing different. As a teenager – maybe, but as a child – nope. I'm sure it was difficult sorting out all your feelings. As every child goes through that, but when what your feeling is different, I'm sure it was difficult. Anyway, it sounds like you have found your way…and you're happy! I'm so glad for you and your wife/husband. Life is too short to pretend. Life is too precious not to share with someone you love. So glad to "chat" new friend. (-:

    • Anonymous August 9, 2010 at 4:58 pm #
      Opinionated MAMA

      Hi Michelle O-MAMA! Sorry I haven't written back to you. Thank you for your reply. It is nice to know that there are people like you in the world. I realized in my life that there are 2 options, 1- go forward no matter how difficult it is, or 2- give up and blame the whole world for your problems. As you can tell, I chose the first one. Life has really thrown me some very, very, difficult curve-balls. That is another story. I hope to hear from you soon.

    • Anonymous October 15, 2010 at 6:15 am #
      Opinionated MAMA

      wowfactor, the day "gays" are as tolerant and considerate of others as they are trying to demand the rest of us be toward them, then get back to me about what wonderful people they are. Until they quit acting like a bunch of bullying, lying drama queens, with an ultra sense of entitlement, I will see them for what they ARE! No amount of lying or denying, much less your lame attempts to manipulate, will ever get you anywhere with level headed people with an ounce of common sense. They spit on hypocrites and liars.

    • Anonymous October 15, 2010 at 3:58 pm #
      Opinionated MAMA

      Hi Felix! Thanks for your reply, I enjoy hearing everyone's opinion. I read your reply very carefully and have to say that a lot of people feel that way. We, gay people, have to deal with opinions like this everyday of our lives. We are treated different, looked at different, are the topic of whispers and so on. We, (I), have developed thick skin and so these words do not hurt, nor offend, or dictate in which direction my life will go. Thank you.

    • Anonymous October 16, 2010 at 8:39 am #
      Opinionated MAMA

      wowfactor, LOL And any fat, short, very attractive, very unattractive….person could say the same thing. With all the hysterics from gays, very hard to believe the part about you all having such thick skins LOL

  4. Anonymous August 14, 2010 at 6:53 am #
    Opinionated MAMA

    This is just sick and wrong in so many ways. A judge, who is supposed to be impartial, and leave his personal agenda AT HOME, comes in and over turns a vote by the people. He not only goes against the will of the majority, he goes so far as saying it is unconstitutional to hold all people to the same rules. WHAT A FLAMING CROCK OF CRAP. No way this will stand.

  5. Anonymous October 2, 2010 at 8:15 am #
    Opinionated MAMA

    This gay judge just has mental issues that prevent him from seeing this issue clearly, being so completely blinded by his bias. Straights can not benefit from same sex unions. Simple as that, so yes, giving gays that right IS SPECIAL TREATMENT AND DISCRIMINATION AGAINST STRAIGHTS.

    • jessianne October 14, 2010 at 8:28 pm #
      Opinionated MAMA
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      Our nation, as a whole, benefits when individuals are granted the rights that they deserve. Being an LGBTQ person means facing discrimination in the workplace, bullying at school and in many cases from family members, not being able to marry your loved one legally in most states, and being faced with higher rates of suicide and homelessness. LGBTQ individuals deserve the same rights as all other individuals in the United States. They most certainly are not being given special treatment when they will continue to have obstacles and hurdles in their way. The removal of one of those hurdles, such as permitted a homosexual to marry, is certainly a victory, but it is not enough.

  6. Anonymous October 15, 2010 at 6:10 am #
    Opinionated MAMA

    JessiAnne, I think you are a bit confused if you don't realize that everyone should, and already has, the same rules. What "gays" want are SPECIAL rules and rights ABOVE AND BEYOND that of everyone else. As far as the ridiculous "gay marriage" business, I will never, no matter what ANY LAW SAYS, recognize anything referred to as such. Sure, a "gay union" or whatever they want to call it OTHER than marriage. Just plain pisses me off how intolerant and bullying gays are, and how hypocritical!!!! When they disrespect, victimize, and show NO tolerance for anyone else, they sure as hell don't have any right to so much as ask for tolerance for their deviance. Do a search and you will see their "reasoning" is no different than NAMBLA.
    When obummer is giving "gay" unmarried couples benefits, but not straight unmarried couples, it is about as clear as it gets how the "gays" are bullying their way through the system for financial profit only, and this has nothing to do with any kind of relationships of the heart. Add up the cost of those benefits, that tax payers pay for, and then tell me they are ripping off the whole country with this BS. The lies they tell, to manipulate the ignorant, are easy enough to debunk, but some are just so homophobic they cower and allow the gays to do whatever they want, so as to not appear to be what they are, cowards, not in agreement with the gays, just afraid of being called politically incorrect. Same as those who tried to call anyone who hates obummer a racist. Nothing but a lie, and only reason they accuse you of it is because so many cowards can be bullied and manipulated by that idiotic accusation. Quite pathetic really. Had a supervisor once who was so racist and afraid of blacks that she would promote them just to get rid of them, because working for the govt it is very hard to fire someone. They benefited from her ignorance and fear regarding blacks, the same as gays are benefiting from the idiots who are ignorant about how full of lies gays are. Every time I hear that lie about wanting to be married so you can be with your loved one in the hospital etc, I want to scream. ONLY idiots fall for that. Check the laws and you will see gays LIE!!!!!!!
    Gays face NO discrimination. If anyone dares, they fly into court and file false charges, even if they so much as don't like something. I have rarely seen a case come into court with actual standing. And with them being the worst of the bullies, spare me the lame BS about how they are treated in schools, especially with the "Pink Gang" jumping girls in the local high school here.
    The suicide rates etc, only prove that they are mentally defective and need treatment, not perpetuating their mental disease.

    • michelleo-mama October 15, 2010 at 4:52 pm #
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      @ Felix – The fact is that LGBT rights vary in our country. Some states recognize gay marriage, the federal government does not. Single gay persons may adopt a baby, but the law varies by state on couples. There are no federal protections for anti-discrimination, except for hate crimes legislation. Gays are not allowed to serve in the military and President Obama had to issue a presidential memorandum to Secretary Sebelius to require hospitals participating in Medicare or Medicaid to respect the right of patients to designate visitors, not hospitals.

    • debomama October 15, 2010 at 5:06 pm #
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      Felix…First of all you seem to be lumping all gays into one category…they are PEOPLE first and not to be spil on, bullied, or sumarily exempted from rights that PEOPLE have. I'm a Republican and I can say that I see HUMANITY above government, discrimination and politics. We can't teach our kid to be like that. Homosexual lifestyles to not have to appeal to all…but I think it's counterproductive to lump folks together as being all bad, or all good. If you are a gay bully then bully trumps gay for sure…but if you are a person trying to live your life with the person you love…then live an let live…that's what we need to teach our kids.
      Also, I'd ask that you please refrain from name calling and advocating any behavior on this site that does not reflect the respectful and productive tone we are trying to encourage as MAMAs. Gay is not a disease, any more than straight is…race and religion are not diseases either…cancer, on the other hand IS. Just to bring the differnce to your attention.

  7. Anonymous October 16, 2010 at 8:29 am #
    Opinionated MAMA

    Debomama, your post reflects your opinion, nothing more. Science proves that gays are defective, simple as that. And how you want to separate them into varying categories is a bit confusing, when they even "lump" themselves LOL
    The live and let live, mind if you give the same advice to them??? Not like they aren't trying to force the entire country to change to accommodate them. I think you need a better understanding of the word "hypocrisy". When and if you do, and start applying the same standards to everyone, instead of your implied special rules for different groups, you may have a more objective and level headed view of this issue. I stand by my statements that being gay is simply a mental defect, the same as being bipolar. Not to be hated, simply treated. Or, if you prefer, being near sighted. Nothing so evil about it, but not like people with vision problems are accommodated and coddled if they run their car into someone else because they didn't feel like wearing their glasses.

  8. Anonymous October 16, 2010 at 8:34 am #
    Opinionated MAMA

    michelleo-mama, laws vary from state to state on numerous issues, so what? But, I am very curious as to what your reasoning would be for the gays to get this hate crime protection, above and beyond that of everyone else. Are you going to even try to imply that gays do not bully??? The rest of your post was filled with lies, e.g. gays not being allowed to serve in the military, when many do. If all you want to do is perpertuate lies,might want to check into the forum here for that subject. Might learn how well liars are received, and just how much respect they deserve. Give you a clue, NADA. I consider your post to be ridiculous to the point of humorous.

  9. Anonymous October 17, 2010 at 7:52 am #
    Opinionated MAMA

    mich, took a while to stop laughing before I could respond to the lot of your BS.
    FYI – My mother was a teacher, and taught me the most important thing to learn, was HOW to learn. That, and never pick on someone smaller than yourself, even if it is only mentally.
    I will keep that all in mind while answering your posts collectively. Yeah, gonna try and be nice, but watch you flip anyway LOL
    First sentence, untrue, it is because of their unacceptable conduct.
    Second, they are the ones who are committing the hate crimes more so than straights, as they attack everyone at once with their attempts to bully their agenda. There should also not be any preference given to a victim of any kind of that of another. Again, they are trying to demand treatment above everyone else as though assaulting a gay is any worse than assualting a straight. All vicious crimes should carry the same penalties. EVERYONE is someone's child, so that was just plain "for dramatic affect" and fell flat as a pancake! And please do not leave out the fact that gays do commit crimes of their own. And what makes you think Matthew was attacked SOLELY for being gay? How did anyone even know if he wasn't being inappropriately overt about it? (Should warn you that I do not believe in any recreational sex, and yes, not only was I a virgin when I got married, my 17 year old daughter is one as well. Do not try to defend anyone for being a tramp to me. Won't wash no matter what gender or preference, and yes, I fire gay and straight just as fast for bringing their sex life to the work place in any way.)
    As far as gays in govt, guess you also missed the fact that gay unmarried couples are given the same benefits as married people, but straight unmarried couples are not. Now, who is being discriminated against??? Yeah, STRAIGHTS. Gays are given MORE rights, so nope aren't equal, they get better. Complaining about that too???
    You just said gays have been in the military all along, then you said they can't serve. Which line of BS are you going to stick with?
    Personally, I think that until they figure out how to protect straights. Remember that we traditionally have public restrooms for opposite genders, for the protection of each, and along those lines, gays have no place in either, and really should start building their own. I don't want some lesbian ogling me in the bathroom or shower at the public pools any more than a man.
    RFLMFAO "This is MY forum. This is MY website. And, the purpose is for Amreica's moms to tell each other the truth…" So, you are getting pissy because I call you out on your lies, and it bugs you that not everyone cow tows to your bullying because you created the website to perpetuate your personal agenda, and really don't have any interest in truth or facts, unless they agree with yours. Got it, but don't care. I have been standing up to bullies since I could walk, and you are no different.
    Got a serious laugh out of your BS about how you only go for truth, and then use wiki to back your craziness. Are you also ignorant of the FACT that wiki has been fully debunked as a reliable source??????? ANYONE can post anything they want to on it, true or false. Don't believe me? Try it.
    So, I get where you get your ideas, but wish you would give the real information and facts a try some time. Sure, you will be a bit embarrassed by your previous posts, knowing how foolishly you are coming off, but hey,we all make mistakes, and life is a learning process.
    In closing, if you have to be married to live as a loving couple (COMPLETE LIE, and even YOU know it LOL) or be with each other in the hospital, please explain to me how my father and his lady, not married to each other, have been with each other through about a half dozen surgeries by now. Kinda proves what a lie all of that crap is LOL

    • michelleo-mama October 17, 2010 at 4:12 pm #
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      Glad to learn you have a sense of humor! The reason I haven't simply deleted your rants is because I think when digging through all your sarcasm and name calling, there are valid issues of frustration and misinformation that need to be sorted out. We all need to challenge each other to find the facts and then understand them. But, if we can't agree as to what the facts are, we're in trouble! So, why don't you help us? Instead of shouting down anyone who disagrees with you and calling them a liar. Challenge us to find the facts on issues, check the sources we provide, provide your own sources…but, then let's agree on the truth. We can totally disagree on what to do with the truth, but let's agree on the facts first. Then, we can see if we can find some common ground on the issues. What do you think? Oh, and no more name calling – it’s just very junior high and we are trying to get beyond all of that and behave like adults. LOL. Assuming that sounds reasonable, what do you think the definition of a hate crime is and why do you think it had to be amended to include gays this year? Are you saying you don't believe in hate crimes at all? Because if that's your point, that's an interesting conversation to have. But, if you are saying gays aren't targeted because they are gay, then we’ll just agree to disagree. I'm pretty sure no one has ever changed your mind about much! (-: The whole recreational sex thing – super. To each his own, God knows I’ll be raising my girls to abstain until 35 years+. Please send a link to a fact about straight couples not getting the same rights as gay couples though. I'm a married, straight person and if I am being denied a specific civil right, I am not aware of it and I would absolutely demand it of my gov't. And, as far as gays in the military, I'm sure you are aware there are gay people in every facet of society, including the military. You may not like it, but they are there and they are not going away. I think that is the heart of the issue really. People are freaking out because there are more and more gay people coming out and some people just think of the sexual aspect of it. I get that part, but that’s where the “to each his own” thing applies again. I don’t care if you have recreational sex or not, it doesn’t affect what goes on in my bedroom. But, the fact is in the military if anyone finds out you are gay, you get fired. Not fired for having sex on the base, but fired for just being gay. Sure, there are lots of gay people already in the military, but hey are in the closet – where I am assuming you think they should stay. So, the valid debate is not whether or not gay people exist in the military – they do, or if they are getting fired for being gay – they are, but whether or not, the United States of America should allow gays to serve in our armed forces and if so, what are the policies. I’m sure, you and I disagree, but that is the issue. (The wiki source that you don’t like listed all the other countries that allow gays to serve, but the USA is the only one that claims to be the “land of the free”- see that would be a fun conversation to have with you). Public restrooms have doors, no one can ogle you. And, just for the record, wear flip-flops in those public showers – you're more apt to catch a disease than you are to get propositioned. So curious as to what RFLMFAO means – "really feel like my facts are o.k." or "really feel like making fries after oprah?" You don't know me…if you did, you would not call me a liar…and you might actually agree with me on some things. Right now, it seems that we disagree on the interpretation of the facts, so let’s figure out why. Wiki is just an easy recap, but, if you want other sources, there are plenty, I'm happy to oblige. What FACTS are you disputing exactly – I'm happy to get you multiple sources. Which is what this site is about…and the reason Debbie and I have worked so hard to make a place for moms to chat about issues. We started this forum because we absolutely do not agree on what to do about the issues, but we agree on the facts and we debate the issues with humor and common sense because we are moms.

    • Anonymous October 18, 2010 at 7:47 am #
      Opinionated MAMA

      Mich, you’re killin’ me LOL Starting to get the impression that you are only posting bunk to see what kind of reaction you can get LOL

      “Glad to learn you have a sense of humor!”

      Took you this long to realize how much I have been laughing as I read?

      “ The reason I haven't simply deleted your rants”

      LOL Admitting to being a power hungry control freak who can’t handle the fact that not everyone will agree with your point of view?

      “ is because I think when digging through all your sarcasm and name calling,”

      How very hypocritical of you to admonish anyone when you do worse.

      “ there are valid issues of frustration and misinformation that need to be sorted out. We all need to challenge each other to find the facts and then understand them.”

      Kinda hard to do when you have basically admitted that you can’t even run your own searches, and therefore are probably quite ignorant regarding a lot of the information that is all over the internet. At this time, I would challenge you to educate yourself, if possible. My time is spent educating youth, as they deserve the attention.

      “But, if we can't agree as to what the facts are, we're in trouble!”

      Even when spoon fed, I anticipate your rejecting it just because you don’t like it.

      “ So, why don't you help us?”

      Again?

      “ Instead of shouting down anyone”

      Shouting down? You are the one who is threatening with deletion of my posts, so that kinda makes you the bully here. Don’t even try to play otherwise.

      “ who disagrees with you and calling them a liar.”

      Right back atcha’. How about posting something other than you personal opinions that come from ignorance? Go run those searches so you actually know what you are talking about.

      “ Challenge us to find the facts on issues,”

      Did that.

      “ check the sources we provide,”

      Provide valid ones, not just those from biased or completely debunked sites.

      “ provide your own sources…”

      How many is the magic number to make you “happy”?

      “but, then let's agree on the truth.”

      LOL When you have people who actually believe there is a gay gene of some kind, when the scientists say otherwise (still haven’t found it, but some took the fact they were looking and ran with it as though it did exist LOL) just exactly what are you going to accept as truth? Reality or the opinions of the un or ill-informed?

      “ We can totally disagree on what to do with the truth, but let's agree on the facts first.”

      Already told you why I am skeptical of that little idea when it comes to you.

      “ Then, we can see if we can find some common ground on the issues. What do you think?”

      I think you will continue to vent your opinions and biases despite anything I post.

      “ Oh, and no more name calling – it’s just very junior high and we are trying to get beyond all of that and behave like adults.”

      And, will you be holding yourself to the same rules? Haven’t seen anything but double standards.

      “LOL. Assuming that sounds reasonable, what do you think the definition of a hate crime is and why do you think it had to be amended to include gays this year? Are you saying you don't believe in hate crimes at all?”

      All violent crimes against innocent victims should be considered “hateful”, those against gays are no worse than any of the others. All victims should have the same rights and protections.

      “Because if that's your point, that's an interesting conversation to have. But, if you are saying gays aren't targeted because they are gay, then we’ll just agree to disagree.”

      IF they didn’t act so inappropriately, and held themselves to the same standard of conduct that is expected from everyone else (they call it COMMON DECENCY) then how would anyone even know they were gay? NO, it isn't for being gay, it is for grossing everyone else out with the way they act. People who pick their noses and eat it gross me out too. Never going to be tolerant or accepting of that either. Deal with it.
      I was just asked the other day whether or not I like men LOL because I do not engage in overt sexual conduct like some whore. Do you really think that gays take any more shots than the town whore always has? It has to do with their conduct in public, not who they screw in private. I could care less if they were doing it with the kitchen faucet BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, just keep the perversion away from impressionable kids, and don’t try to force me to embrace anything I find repulsive. Not like I even ask any of them what they think of who I date, much less try to demand that they tolerate any horrific behavior by my acquaintances of any sort. You just don’t seem to understand that the resentment is not due to their perversions, it is due to their bullying behavior.

      “ I'm pretty sure no one has ever changed your mind about much!”

      LOL When my son was only 2, there was an occasion when he said something and I had to point blank tell him, “Ya’ know, you’re right and I’m wrong” because he was. You aren’t. Practiced law long enough to know that you have to be open minded enough to check yourself and never go on hearsay etc. Might want to try some of those concepts yourself. Would you ever admit how far off you are? LOL The bit about deleting my posts kinda says otherwise LOL

      “ (-: The whole recreational sex thing – super. To each his own, God knows I’ll be raising my girls to abstain until 35 years+. “

      Yeah, right LOL

      “Please send a link to a fact about straight couples not getting the same rights as gay couples though. “

      Consider this the ONE time I am going to post any links for you. EDUCATE YOURSELF. It would go a long way toward the improvement of this country as a whole if people would quit being so damned lazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/17/AR2009061702578.html
      This touches on it, and you get to follow it through, if you can.

      “I'm a married, straight person and if I am being denied a specific civil right, I am not aware of it and I would absolutely demand it of my gov't.”

      LOL Picture me sitting here staring at the floor, shaking my head and LAUGHING. And no, I don’t even think you imagine how that last line came off LOL Pathetic.

      “ And, as far as gays in the military, I'm sure you are aware there are gay people in every facet of society, including the military.”

      Duh.

      “ You may not like it,”

      YOUR WORDS, do not try to put them in my mouth. I know it is a typical tactic of your group, but I won’t roll over for it. I have a ribbon on my car that says SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, and no, it doesn't say JUST THE STRAIGHT ONES.

      “ but they are there and they are not going away. I think that is the heart of the issue really.”

      Nope. As I already stated, the crux of this issue is a small group trying to bully their agenda on the majority. Deal with it and stop trying to make it into anything else.

      “ People are freaking out because there are more and more gay people coming out and some people just think of the sexual aspect of it.”

      THAT was either very ignorant, or very dishonest. Don’t know you well enough to know whether you meant it or just posted it for dramatic affect.

      “ I get that part, but that’s where the “to each his own” thing applies again. I don’t care if you have recreational sex or not, it doesn’t affect what goes on in my bedroom. But, the fact is in the military if anyone finds out you are gay, you get fired. Not fired for having sex on the base, but fired for just being gay.”

      LOL Again, how would anyone know if they were not engaging in inappropriate conduct? You saying someone just calls one gay and that is all it takes to give them the boot? Surely, you don’t even expect anyone to believe that bunk.

      “ Sure, there are lots of gay people already in the military, but hey are in the closet – where I am assuming you think they should stay. “

      I think everyone, gay/straight/abstinent.., should keep their sex life in the closet while on the job! And if they didn’t want to be held to the rules, their bad by signing up.

      “So, the valid debate is not whether or not gay people exist in the military – they do, or if they are getting fired for being gay – they are, but whether or not, the United States of America should allow gays to serve in our armed forces and if so, what are the policies.”

      Nope, the issues is whether or not they should be allowed to flaunt sexual anything while on the job. I fired straights for inappropriate conduct, so should they file charges for discrimination or a hate crime against me for that? If you would say no, after the rest of your posts, that would make you a stoned cold hypocrite. But, on the flip side, you would still have out files being ruined by the spilt coffee.

      “ I’m sure, you and I disagree, but that is the issue.”

      Only in your opinion.

      “ (The wiki source that you don’t like listed”

      Didn’t like? Don’t use for anything but entertainment, as it is fraught with inaccuracies and total BS. Please use credibly sources if your want to be given any points for credibility for yourself. Simple as that. So no references to political cartoons as documentation of any kind either. Get it?

      “ all the other countries that allow gays to serve,”

      Is this where I am supposed to want to do what other countries do, when they are so much worse than this one? Seriously, next you will be saying we should let all the illegals have their way because you want this country as screwed up as Mexico. Are you getting how out of left field your ideas are?

      “ but the USA is the only one that claims to be the “land of the free””

      And that includes free to reject the perverse lifestyle of gays, not just the freedoms YOU deem appropriate, keep that in mind here.

      “- see that would be a fun conversation to have with you). “

      Bull, you would be sorry you started that one LOL Just how many of those countries have you been to? Me, I ain’t never leaving US soil again, been there, done that, and it gave showed me just how much I would rather be here than there.

      “Public restrooms have doors, no one can ogle you.”

      Ok, gonna go there, and just plain be stupid? Seriously, you gotta be kidding. Three of my friends have been harassed by lesbians in public restrooms while washing their hands. Would you please quit with idotic crap already. You are stretching so far you are gonna hurt yourself.

      “ And, just for the record, wear flip-flops in those public showers – you're more apt to catch a disease than you are to get propositioned. “

      Maybe that is your experience, but I would have no way of knowing what you look like. I do wish that line of hooey was correct, so I wouldn’t be having to ward off their advances for the past few decades. They have been propositioning me since I was in my mid 20s, same as men, because of the way God put me together. (My mother was literally a beauty queen.) I would have no way of knowing how they treat the ugly, obese, or whatever it is they are repulsed by.

      “So curious as to what RFLMFAO means – "really feel like my facts are o.k." or "really feel like making fries after oprah?"”

      Perfect example of what a hypocritical piece of work your lying ass is. I find it hard to believe that anyone over the age of 12 doesn’t know what that means, so your pathetic attempt to piss me off just made you look like a moron. Good job!

      “ You don't know me…if you did, you would not call me a liar…”

      I have read enough to call your posts full of lies. As far as my personal opinion of the person behind this persona, LOL You couldn’t deal with it if I was completely honest. Very obvious that if this isn’t sugar coated you’re gonna fly into yet another hissy fit LOL But I will say you remind me of my ex, that I refer to as a mental pygmy. Didn’t right out call you one, but, you get the gist.
      “and you might actually agree with me on some things. “
      Again, outburst of laughter, and a big old YEAH, RIGHT! RFLMFAO

      “Right now, it seems that we disagree on the interpretation of the facts”

      Nope, I disagree with your opinions, have yet to see many facts.

      “, so let’s figure out why.”

      You have failed to educate yourself on the issue enough to debate it properly.

      “ Wiki is just an easy recap,”

      If you use it at all, just shows how much you really care whether your sources are in any way accurate.

      “ but, if you want other sources, there are plenty, I'm happy to oblige. What FACTS are you disputing exactly “

      LOL Pick a subject.

      “- I'm happy to get you multiple sources. “

      WTF? Then why didn’t you research the thing about the benefits yourself?

      “Which is what this site is about…”

      Not what I have seen thus far LOL

      “and the reason Debbie and I have worked so hard to make a place for moms to chat about issues. We started this forum because we absolutely do not agree on what to do about the issues, but we agree on the facts and we debate the issues with humor and common sense because we are moms.”

      Again, not what I have seen from you. What I have seen are pompous attempts to lord over the site and intimidate anyone into agreeing with your or else. Fortunately, for the country as a whole, not all of us wasted our time on Mensa, and actually use our heads to REALLY deal with the issues. You want to see REAL bullying? You could always go with me on my rounds, as a member of the Anti-Bullying Task Force for this county. You would also see the REALITY of what goes on in the local schools and how the straight kids are being targeted for attacks by the lesbian gang called the Pinks. Common sense tells me that NO ONE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO VICTIMIZE AN INNOCENT IN ANY WAY. Just that cut and dried. On the other hand, you seem to be of the position that if you have a sexual dysfunction, you should be allowed to run over everyone else’s rights of every kind, right down to the basic principles we choose to live by. Next you would try to tell me that dropping a woman for grabbing my ass would be a hate crime, but not if I did the same thing to a man for doing the same thing. That is where your BS about “EQUAL” treatment is debunked. And by all means, do tell why I should put up with the overt sexual conduct of gays in public places, especially where children are present, when I tell straights to “Get a room!”?

    • Anonymous October 18, 2010 at 7:49 am #
      Opinionated MAMA

      FYI, that last post was completely edited to separate between your words and mine, as you may be able to see from the quotation marks.
      But, you can see how it turned out. As you have already declared yourself the one responsible for the running of this site, might want to figure out how to get it running properly to accept "new ideas" (to certain people anyway LOL) like proper punctuation. This site sure is good for a laugh with my morning mocha.

    • michelleo-mama October 18, 2010 at 8:06 am #
      Opinionated MAMA
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      gotcha.

    • Anonymous October 19, 2010 at 9:30 am #
      Opinionated MAMA

      And no, didn't miss that little poll, which I could assume was directed at YOU trying to violate MY right to free speech. LOL Another case of someone who can dish it out, but can't take it, so they power trip and disregard and discriminate against anyone who is different, even if it is just in mind set LOL Yeah, this just gets better all the time RFLMFAO, and I definitely get why the site is called what it is, and has that logo.
      Can hardly wait to see your idea of "change", and anticipate it being slashing all posts that don't promote what YOU believe in LOL

    • Anonymous October 19, 2010 at 3:38 pm #
      Opinionated MAMA

      You are clearly missing the point. NO ONE wants to listen to your abrasive language. That is not what this site is about. But, you just keep going…clearly, they haven't banned you from the site…because you are still going! So, you get to spew…saying nothing constructive! The "freedom of speech" doesn't include slander or hate speech. I wish there was a "delete" button!

  10. Anonymous October 18, 2010 at 6:19 am #
    Opinionated MAMA

    MichelleO-MAMA, why pretend this is an open forum for all moms if you just delete anything you find objectionable? Should I just assume that if I am not sucking at the heels of obama and condone all of his crimes, along with those of other heinous groups, that you will call my posts a "rant"? I have read several of your posts, and I see the bullying coming from you, not Felix. Very hypocritical of you to conduct yourself in the way you do, and then accuse anyone who disagrees of being the liar (your posts have far more inaccuracies), and even a veiled threat to censor all that you don't like.
    How about you check yourself and go by the same rules you attempt to impose on other posters?

    • debomama October 19, 2010 at 10:06 am #
      Opinionated MAMA
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      Seriously? We are not deleting all the posts, just the ones that have nasty language in them. You are entitled to your opinion – we want to hear them, we would just appreciate doing it respectfully.

    • Anonymous October 19, 2010 at 3:45 pm #
      Opinionated MAMA

      It isn't about what has been said, just HOW it was said. This is supposed to be a site where moms can support other moms. Where did all the negative mean-spirit come from all of a sudden? We were agreeing on some things, disagreeing on others and then just agreeing to disagree, but explaining why we felt certain ways. It was actually great. And, then BAM. It started in the BULLY room with a mama sharing that she had been bullied as a child and then the attacks started. Stop the madness. We are all in this together!

    • Anonymous October 20, 2010 at 5:17 am #
      Opinionated MAMA

      From what I read, Felix was trying to maintain her sense of humor, while michelle was trying to be a control freak, and took it very badly when she could not intimidate Felix. I was disgusted by the way michelle kept trying to bully Felix, and much more of that will have me leaving this site. Those of us who do not tolerate the poor treatment of others in real life, don't condone it on the internet either. And to have someone who claims they are a mother, doing what they are supposed to instruct their children not to, is even more disgusting to me. The madness is that anyone can try to defend the bullying conduct of anyone. Our kids learn from our example, and I would much more prefer that they learn to keep a touch of humor when dealing with ridiculously stressful situations, than to over react and just make things worse.
      As far as bullying in general is concerned, I doubt there are very many of us who haven't encountered a bully at one time or another. As parents, it is up to us to teach our children how to deal with them, not to use them as an excuse for anything. In these times, our kids need to be strong enough to deal with all the world's madness, not to cower and cave to it.

    • Anonymous October 20, 2010 at 8:18 am #
      Opinionated MAMA

      Really, because my head was spinning after reading the discussion threads. I thought the gals who run the site were very tactful. Not only in here, but look at the BULLY room. Felix was on the attack. At first, Debbie tried to diffuse her and it didn't work. She was a little scary and everyone else dropped out of the conversation. I, for one, stopped chatting because I didn't want to put up with a cyber bully that I don't know and don't need to respond to. Anyway, she seems to have calmed down, which is when people actually start to listen.

    • Anonymous October 20, 2010 at 8:29 am #
      Opinionated MAMA

      Oh, but otherwise, I REALLY agree with you REALmama. Our kids absolutely learn from example, we need to maintain our sense of humor and we need to teach our kids to stand up to bullies, but we don't need to put up with them. If possible, make them go away – either avoid them, ignore them or stand up to them – no cowering, no caving. We can't allow the bullies to shout everyone else down and make up stuff just because they don't agree with something, or they "win"…and our kids lose.

    • Anonymous October 21, 2010 at 7:12 am #
      Opinionated MAMA

      LOL I didn't see it that way in the slightest. I saw a poster come to the site with a differing view, and those who run it have a serious problem with not having yet another "yes man". The points Felix was making were quite valid, and I did agree with almost all of it. I think that those who disagreed just got their backs up and saw what they chose to create in their own imaginations, and then project it. Seems as soon as someone disagrees with certain people, they want to call that an attack, just like what the gays do so frequently. Saying that they are sexually deviant or defective, not to mention mentally so, is an opinion shared by many, the majority as a matter of fact. Calling it an attack is akin to Debbie and Michelle claiming they were attacked when it looked to me like they were only being laughed at and called out on their inaccurate statements.

    • Anonymous October 21, 2010 at 8:04 am #
      Opinionated MAMA

      Thanks for being a dose of common sense among the high school drama queens. At least some of us can remain level headed in times of crazy LOL

    • Anonymous October 22, 2010 at 8:43 am #
      Opinionated MAMA

      You're welcome, but, after reading through a few other forums on this site, I can see a disturbing trend. You have to agree with everything that racists, gays and obamas says, or you come under attack. Going to take the same tactic I advocate with any other kind of cyber bullying. (I am so fed up with all the news trying to drum up sensationalism over the topic, that so many people are forgetting how simple it is to just turn off the computer, and take the power cord away if necessary. Instead of actually taking such simple steps to put an END to the bullying, they would rather blow a lot of hot air in trying to deal with bullies in ridiculous ways.) I am turning a deaf ear on those like michelle, thereby taking all her power away. Good luck with this site, if you decide to remain. I prefer to simply walk away from such things. I know better, and all these lies and attempts to cloud the issue will never be allowed to distract me from reality. Peace and happiness to you.

    • Anonymous October 22, 2010 at 8:52 am #
      Opinionated MAMA

      You are right. No reason to give this site any more attention than it deserves, and leave it to die like anything else associated with obama.

  11. Anonymous October 18, 2010 at 7:32 am #
    Opinionated MAMA

    Until they have as much tolerance for straights as they demand for themselves, screw 'em and their attempts at hypocritical bullying. Tell them to find another term for a new concept, instead of trying to force us all to redefine the word marriage, before they even start the conversation.

    • Anonymous October 19, 2010 at 10:03 am #
      Opinionated MAMA

      I think that a different term than "marriage" is a reasonable place to start the conversation!

    • debomama October 19, 2010 at 10:07 am #
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      I also agree with not using the term "marriage."

    • michelleo-mama October 19, 2010 at 10:10 am #
      Opinionated MAMA
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      As soon as the right-wing stops using the word "conservative." (-: Love you.

    • Anonymous October 20, 2010 at 5:37 am #
      Opinionated MAMA

      I really don't understand why gays would object to using a different term. Not like they have a problem with the term gay, to describe their being different from straight. Makes no sense to me, which is why I think it is nothing but bullying to keep demanding marriage be redefined.

  12. Anonymous October 20, 2010 at 5:11 am #
    Opinionated MAMA

    Debomama, if you are asking for people to be respectful, the first person you should deal with would be michelle. If she is allowed to post her snippy little posts, and take the shots she does, with her sarcasm quite obvious, then do not carry double standards for everyone else.
    Is this an "obama backing" site or something? I am getting that impression from the way things are handled here.

  13. Anonymous October 20, 2010 at 5:34 am #
    Opinionated MAMA

    ocmama, abrasive? Such as? Advocating that parents parent is not being constructive in your opinion? (Who is missing the point? And exactly what was constructive about this little attack by you?) And by all means, please provide what you consider to be slander or hate speech LOL
    Nope, you aren't the only one who wishes this site had more options LOL

  14. Anonymous October 20, 2010 at 5:35 am #
    Opinionated MAMA

    michelle, please explain why you take issue with the "right wing" use of the word conservative.

    • michelleo-mama October 20, 2010 at 8:04 am #
      Opinionated MAMA
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      I have always been a more conservative person, more cautious, more modest, that my friends like Debbie always call me a "conservative." The word "conservative" used to mean moderation or cautious (i.e., a conservative estimate), but now it has morphed into something else. I don't think Republicans have been very "conservative" with our fiscal policy…or with initiating our war efforts, for example. I was teasing Debbie – she calls me a "conservative" when I prefer the term "moderate" now because of the "conservative political movement."

  15. Anonymous October 21, 2010 at 7:07 am #
    Opinionated MAMA

    tiredmama, several times I have seen bullies shamed into just drying up and going away, because they were just laughed at. Allowing them to intimidate in the first place is how you give them power, which I refuse to do.

  16. Anonymous October 21, 2010 at 7:49 am #
    Opinionated MAMA

    mich, LOL, so, you take issue to the "redefinition" of the word conservative, and still don't understand how the majority takes issue with the attempts by gays to redefine the word marriage?
    I have been conservative, in the traditional sense, most of my life (excluding the wild teens of course LOL) and don't really care who wants to play with the word and try to change it into whatever they want. It will still be what it always was, meaning fully intact, no matter what they say. Same as the word marriage. Sure, I am ordained, but in no way going to allow anyone to bully me into performing a same sex union of any kind.
    FYI-regarding the teasing, I think you have already shown how you can't discern humor in a post without the tone, inflection, or sound of laughter, so please don't be put off by someone else not recognizing it in one of your posts.

  17. Anonymous October 21, 2010 at 7:55 am #
    Opinionated MAMA

    tired, LOL, scared by text on a screen? And just how do you handle real bullies? LOL Sorry, but that post just cracked me up beyond belief!!!
    Calmed down??? RFLMFAO You people just don't get it do you? I may find many of these post to be completely idiotic crap, and if I had to deal with these posters in the real world it may be different, IF they were even real. But, as I can tell this is a very slanted, biased site to begin with, I am just sitting here laughing at it, wondering about the true age etc of the posters. Quit being such a timid coward. Cyber bullying is a total crock. No way you can blame anyone but yourself for turning the machine on and reading it of your own free will. That is what pisses me off in real life with all this BS about kids killing themselves over cyber bullying. Kids with real parents, who know they are loved, and have the support of their families, would never do such a thing. All these suicides stem from faulty parents, nothing else.

  18. Anonymous October 21, 2010 at 8:01 am #
    Opinionated MAMA

    tired, sorry you come from the point of view, position in life, whatever the heck it is that makes you feel like you have no power and can be so easily victimized. I just can't relate to that mind set.
    Believe it or not (still laughing at the personna some have tried to project onto me LOL) I am literally a problem solver and victims advocate (per awards, job titles etc), and am the one who stands between the bullies and the REAL victims (high schooler going after an elementary school kid live and in person, not just some twit on the internet snipping and spreading lies). Yeah, I can recognize a bully in a heart beat, they typically use the same old tactics over and over. The gays, michelle…ssdd (same sh*t different day).
    I take issue with anyone trying to force anyone into doing anything they don't have to by law (keep in mind, that with the exception of obama's bullying his crap in opposition to the majority vote, same as that gay judge in CA, our laws are voted in by the majority), especially when there is no common sense reason for it. Getting an idea why I see gays as nothing but bullies??? They can keep their perversion (seen as such by the majority) behind closed doors. Much like picking your nose, disgusting, no one wants to see it, so if you must, keep it to yourself.

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